Appleseed Shoot- Garfield, WA 8/15-8/16

[tadao]

I finally got an Appleseed shoot arranged locally. It will be at the Garfield Gun Club. It's approximately a half hour from Pullman and Moscow.

The instruction is top notch, and there is an emphasis on what marksmanship has to do with our heritage as Americans.

Women and kids (under 21) shoot free.

You should be able to register here http://www.appleseedinfo.org/ within the next few days.

If you have any questions, you can ask me here, email me palouseappleseed@live.com, or look on the Appleseed website (and forum) for more info.

Thanks,

Todd

[tadao]

Here is the information link on the Appleseed website for the 8/15-8/16 Garfield Shoot: http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=8048.0 (http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=8048.0)


The registration link is http://www.eventbrite.com/event/385910268 (http://www.eventbrite.com/event/385910268)


Again, if anyone has questions don't hesitate to email me at the above address.


Thanks,


Todd

[JeffDubya]

Todd, how is your event going? I didn't realize there was a shoot in Lewiston on this exact same day. I also understand "The Fred" will be the SB in Lewiston.

[JeffDubya]

Also, am I reading correctly on your website that the Sunday portion of the event begins at 4:00 PM?

[JeffDubya]

If you have an interest in American history and the desire to learn how to shoot... or to learn how to shoot... BETTER, then seriously consider this event! I really enjoyed my first, and I am trying to make it to one of these events this weekend. It's truly a rare opportunity.

[tadao]

Jeff,

We are all systems go for Garfield. I just put up the target backers and firing line stakes up today. So far we have 34 shooters pre-registered and room for a few more.

Fred will be the SB for Lapwai. Larry and I must have been thinking alike to have them scheduled on the same days.

Sunday we are starting @ 0830. Must be a typo somewhere. I'll have to get that fixed.

If you show up, I will get you a spot on the line, pre-registered or not.

--Todd

[JeffDubya]

I don't know how many 9-12ers showed up for this event... but I don't think any did. If any did, they didn't make themselves known. If that assumption is true, all I can say is that you missed out on amazing heritage and marksmanship event in your own backyard.

Hopefully some of you made it to the Lapwai / Lewiston event.

These are opportunities that simply should not be missed.

Special thanks TDAO for all your hard work in making this come together.

38 shooters on the line. 17 National Guard and army, and the individual who made rifleman was a cute little girlio less than 15 years of age (guestimate.)

[tadao]

Jeff,

I want to thank you for coming out, and for having a positive, teachable attitude. I was impressed with the results that I saw just coaching you for the short time I was able to. The offhand group and some of the prone groups were rifleman groups. You'll start seeing that more often with time.

I'm going to recover a bit before considering any more, but I think that, with the number of requests I received for another shoot this year, I will have to end up doing one fairly soon. Regardless of that, I would love to work with local shooters to help them get better.

Thank you for coming up with extra targets. I don't think that the Appleseed brass believed me when I told them I would fill the line with shooters (actually it was God answering a prayer that filled the line).

Thanks,

Todd

[EthanCDUB]

I would love some help. I've been having trouble sighting in my irons.

[JeffDubya]

I want to thank you for coming out, and for having a positive, teachable attitude. I was impressed with the results that I saw just coaching you for the short time I was able to. The offhand group and some of the prone groups were rifleman groups. You'll start seeing that more often with time.

Thanks, Todd. I won't lie... I come to events like this with high expectations of myself, and it can be frustrating at times. I believe that part of the challenges I am facing are self-imposed and equipment related. Now THAT is a conversation I would like to have with you over a beer. That being said, every day I participate I improve, and the four days I have spent at Appleseed events have resulted in marksmanship improvement that to me can only be described as impressive. And that's not to say I am impressed with myself (I'm sure there's a joke in there somewhere) but there is no doubt that I have gone from complete n00b to halfway respectable shooter. Someday I WILL get that RM patch.

For anyone else reading this thread... if you believe in the second amendment and firearms ownership, then you need to be involved in Appleseed, or NRA, or other events. There is no use in owning a rifle you do not know how to shoot, and unlike your favorite video game, it's a freaking hard thing to do.

Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto of the imperial Japanese Navy once dismissed the invasion of the United States because we were a nation of riflemen. "You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass."

Do you think a similar adversary, even someone in our own government, would agree with this contention today?

Every one of us is responsible for protecting and defending liberty. Even if we never fire a shot in defense of that cause, the practiced ability to do so may be the most powerful weapon against tyranny you could ever have.

[tadao]

I would love some help. I've been having trouble sighting in my irons.

Maybe we could set up an impromptu shoot. I could get Jeff to explain inches, minutes, clicks ;)

--Todd

[gemstatemom]

Todd - I want to add my thanks to you for organizing/sponsoring this.

My husband and I are VERY interested, but he could not get time off during harvest. Something about keeping his job....priorities...eating. Yeah, that stuff.

So, if the next event is in late September, I know there would be at least two more...probably 3 'cuz we'd bring our 15 yo daughter along too. Maybe another Annie Oakley in the making, who knows?

The hardest part is coming up with the ammo since John uses custom loads. That requires time to get ammo prepared. I'll have him contact you or talk to another instructor to find out what is necessary.

So, Lord willing, we'll be there in the near future.

[jlafer]

Maybe we could set up an impromptu shoot. I could get Jeff to explain inches, minutes, clicks ;)

--Todd

Todd, I would definitely participate in an impromptu shoot. I am registered for the Appleseed event in Coeur d'Alene in September, but I need some practice before that. I don't want to embarrass myself with my new rifle and all that. :o

[tadao]

How about this Sunday afternoon at the Garfield range?

Anyone who's interested please RSVP and state what time would be the best.

I have 3 .22's that I could loan out (byoa :->).

[JeffDubya]

If my wife doesn't recruit me to mow the lawn, I might be up for that! How long were you thinking, a few hours?

[tadao]

So, if the next event is in late September, I know there would be at least two more...probably 3 'cuz we'd bring our 15 yo daughter along too. Maybe another Annie Oakley in the making, who knows?

The hardest part is coming up with the ammo since John uses custom loads. That requires time to get ammo prepared. I'll have him contact you or talk to another instructor to find out what is necessary.


Paula,

The next Appleseed in the area is in Coeur D'Alene on 9/12-9/13, maybe not the best dates for a 9.12'er. Our Idaho state coordinator is working on more before the winter sets in, I don't know how close though.

I would strongly recommend a .22, like a Ruger 10/22 or something similar. The money you save in ammo will pay for the rifle (not at all an exaggeration), and the rifle will be plenty accurate. Most of the shooting is done at 25 meters. Your husband, like most shooters, will likely scoff at the short range, but doing it is another matter.

Most people with some firearms experience tend to come to an Appleseed wanting to play with different guns or accessories, and ask frequently to change out or adjust different things. Appleseed isn't really about hardware, it's about the software. The focus is on the Rifleman, not the rifle (or sometimes in spite of the rifle if it's a lemon). In other words, the goal is that you should be able to pick up any off the rack rifle with iron sights and surplus ammo and hit a man sized target out to 500 yards.

--Todd

[JeffDubya]

Maybe we could set up an impromptu shoot. I could get Jeff to explain inches, minutes, clicks ;)

Ohhhh there's always a comedian in the house.

How about this as an explanation. "Units of measurement and adjustment that are currently one of the obstacles to my becoming a rifleman."

[JeffDubya]

Todd, I would definitely participate in an impromptu shoot. I am registered for the Appleseed event in Coeur d'Alene in September, but I need some practice before that. I don't want to embarrass myself with my new rifle and all that. :o

Here's some unsolicited advice from a guy who has been there and done that.

(1) If you're going to shoot a new rifle, familiarize yourself with your firearm and accessories in advance. Yes, in AS you spend a portion of the first day getting zeroed in, but there's always the chance you never overcome that obstacle, and if you were already dialed in and could spend some time working on the fundamentals and getting ready to shoot your AQTs that's only good for you.

(2) Regardless of what you have, or what you think, screw it. Get yourself a USGI sling and use it just like your instructors. Remember this is THEIR program and THEIR test. Your likelihood of success is only increased by going with the flow.

I approached AS in what I thought was a very logical manner. I brought my AR-15 (albeit with a .22 conversion kit) and my tactical sling. For sights I have an eotech holographic mount with 1x magnification. My theory was: this is the rifle I would take out into the field with me if the shit ever hit the fan, so I want to know how to use it AS IS.

However, the more I read about tactical firearms the more I realize that effective use is dependent on mission configuration. There's a lot of really good things about this rifle, but not necessarily for this style of shooting.

(3) If it were me, I would qualify first in a small caliber. It's easier, it's cheaper, but the fundamentals are the same. THEN, I would switch to something larger... .223, 30-06, .308. Then requalify with each weapon as I progressed.

(4) Patience. Don't expect RM your first time out. It might happen, but then again, it might not. Even if you're a crack shot there are a lot of unexpected and uncontrollable variables. Furthermore, don't be annoyed after all your efforts if the person who gets RM is a 12 year old girl. Even if she hasn't been shooting her whole life (which isn't unusual around here), there's a lot of little girls in this area who could blow your freakin head off, give the opportunity. I think it's genetic.

Getting my RM is a big goal for me. Honestly, I don't know how close I am. Todd's a nice guy so he is probably nicer about his evaluations than he needs to be (LOL). I have groupings that are fairly consistent, but putting it all into one contiguous test has been my problem. And until I can do that, then my consistency does not DESERVE to be qualified.

But man, it's a great fun mental and emotional challenge and I really love it.

[EthanCDUB]

I wouldn't be able to make a Sunday shoot, as I work until 4:30.

Same thing with Saturdays.

Actually, the only free day I have untill December are....yesterday (8/20).

But I would be up for something on Labor Day maybe? Half day?

How many rounds would we need?

[tadao]

I wouldn't be able to make a Sunday shoot, as I work until 4:30.

Same thing with Saturdays.

Actually, the only free day I have untill December are....yesterday (8/20).

But I would be up for something on Labor Day maybe? Half day?

How many rounds would we need?

That's a pretty rough schedule :o. Do you get any weekdays off?

I'm thinking a round count of 50-150 rounds.

Is anybody else up for, say, 2:00 pm?

[gemstatemom]

Interested, but can't this weekend and probably can't until after harvest is finished.

Hopefully it will be a fun, profitable time and thus repeated again sometime soon?

[EthanCDUB]

That's a pretty rough schedule :o. Do you get any weekdays off?

I'm thinking a round count of 50-150 rounds.

Is anybody else up for, say, 2:00 pm?

Yea, I get Monday off at 12:30;

and Tuesday/Thursday at 1:30.

[JeffDubya]

I'll be there

[JeffDubya]

Is anyone besides me planning on attending? I have room to carpool...

[JeffDubya]

If anyone is interested call my cell at 509-432-1220. I will be on the road by 1:30 probably won't be on the computer again before then

[jlafer]

Thanks to all for the good info. I see the merit in starting with my .22 rather than one of my .308s. How was the shoot yesterday? I'm really sorry I missed it, but I was up in N. Idaho the last few days taking care of my Dad who is recuperating from heart bypass surgery. Thankfully, he's recovering nicely. But I'm looking forward to some normalcy again and the time to participate in 9-12 activities. I hope there will be another shooting session sometime.

[JeffDubya]

Sorry to hear about your dad John, hope he's ok!

Yesterday Todd and I had a good time shooting the targets and shooting the breeze. He worked on dialing in my AR a bit more, but I think the general consensus is that if I want to shoot that rifle for an AS, then I should be running .223 or 5.56 ammo, not using the .22LR conversion. Todd's theory is that the additional play (round is slightly smaller than the barrel) combined with the fact that the twist rate is designed for a completely different load makes the .22 conversion great for practicing and plinking, but when it comes down to it, AS is a precision marksmanship course. I need a precision tool to get the job done.

So, now I am going to be looking at acquiring a .22 rifle. I shot 2 different ones that todd brought yesterday with success that shocked the poop out of me, just using the iron sights. Specifically, he has a bolt action savage that has the absolute SWEETEST and smoothest trigger on it I have ever felt. Not crazy about the bolt operation but think with practice would be fine... don't think I would get the same sights on it either, but I think that rifle would be darn near perfect for me, and probably good to train my son with as well.

I have a .22 winchester rifle but it's tube fed, and has crappy sights. Not planning on getting rid of it any time soon, but at the same time really isn't much of a rifle. Plus while the tube magazine *can* work for AS, it really seems like a complete PITA when I have seen other shooters using these.

Anyhow, I am going to look into that rifle, and a decent scope, and I think with the knowledge and experience from my previous two appleseeds should be able to knock it out. Hopefully.

BTW, Todd is an amazing rifleman. You have to see this guys groups to believe them.

[The Grand Pooh-Bah]

Wish we could take the time off to attend one of these shoots. Every weekend it filled until we get the roof on the cabin.

Have you shot a 10/22? It is a pretty accurate semi .22 out of the box.

[jlafer]

I bought a Ruger 10/22 for one of my sons. I think I REALLY need this training because it was not too accurate in my hands. :o

But by all accounts it is quite accurate out to about 50 meters, from what I've read. That is what I'll be training with based on the advice found in this forum, but I just realized that the CD'A Appleseed conflicts with the TEA Party planned for 9/12. Darn - I can't do both and they already have my money. Being a patriot takes a lot of time!

[JeffDubya]

I just ordered a Savage Arms Mark II FVT. Trading in an old hunting rifle I acquired.

http://www.savagearms.com/markiifvt.htm

The trigger on these rifles is *EXPLETIVE DELETED* amazing. I shot Todd's on Sunday to realize that my Rifleman goal will be achieved with this baby.

http://www.savagearms.com/at_pressrelease.htm

Nicest trigger I have ever shot.

[JeffDubya]

So Todd... when's the date for the next AS shoot?!

[tadao]

So Todd... when's the date for the next AS shoot?!

Is it already time for me to get up off my rear again? I guess I was enjoying being lazy too much to think about it.

I followed up with some folks from the town of Garfield after the shoot to thank them. I mentioned that people had already asked me when the next Appleseed was going to be, and the response was... not a "no", but kind of a "well next year might be OK."

I'm going to work on finding a different local venue. I'm not sure how long that will take. Envision getting prone in a foot of snow- good character building shooting >:-)

Anybody know any farmers who are into shooting/gun rights? All we'd need is about 90'x150' and a hill for a backstop. If you build it, they will come.

--Todd

[JeffDubya]

What was their reasoning? That is such a drag... seemed like a really nice venue. :(